Complementary
By Anthony Hobday, Katie Langerman
85: Simplicity
How does simplicity differ from minimalism or complexity? Tune in to find out.
Articles/books mentioned:
Simplicity by Per Mollerup
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
84: Interface elements with too much responsibility
Anthony and Katie each pick a few interface elements that are really pulling their weight, perhaps more than they should be.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
83: Onboarding to a new design project
Anthony and Katie discuss starting new roles and the process of getting up to speed with visual design styles you may not yet be familiar with.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
82: Config 2026
Talks discussed:
- Out of sync, on purpose: desktop design after mobile won
- The canvas is not dead ft. Catt Small (Dropbox)
- The invisible mechanisms in your interfaces ft. Johannes Mutter (mutter.co)
- Dense by design ft. Matthew Ström-Awn (mu.design)
- Usernames on Instagram: how a craft fix became an identity crisis
- Everyone's still eating: building Notion's design system
Anthony's blog post: https://anthonyhobday.com/blog/20230428
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
81: The Layers model of product design with Jamie Mill
Anthony and Katie chat with returning guest Jamie Mill about this elements of product design diagram and how he's transferred that concept into an AI agent skill. Check out Jamie's first episode with us, episode 53, for more context on the concepts discussed today.
Jamie's elements of product design: https://jamiemill.com/blog/2021-07-10-elements-of-product-design/
Layer's skill: https://layers.jamiemill.com/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
80: The state of AI for visual design
Anthony and Katie analyze two versions of an AI generated issue tracking interface.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
79: Text editing with Michael Aufreiter
Katie and Anthony are joined by Michael Aufreiter, an expert in all things text editing. It turns out that text editing is quite a complex interaction, enough so that we could have gone on another hour discussing it.
Check out Michael's work:
https://svedit.dev
https://editable.website
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
78: The career episode
After years of intentionally not discussing career advice, today's the day.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
77: Making an interface feel premium
Anthony and Katie discuss some interface quality of life improvements. You'll have to go find Anthony's blog post on the topic yourself. We believe in you.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
76: Visual design with Laura Sinisterra
Anthony and Katie are joined by designer Laura Sinisterra, a visual designer with a unique mathematical, geometric style. We chat about her visual style, how she might define it and what inspired it.
Check out Laura's website: https://laurasinisterra.com/
Follow on X: https://x.com/Lauracsc_
Links mentioned:
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
75: The AI rant episode
Anthony and Katie allow themselves a cheeky little rant about the topic on everyone's mind, AI.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
74: How many icons is too many
Anthony and Katie discuss Nikita Prokopov's "It's hard to justify Tahoe icons".
Article link: https://tonsky.me/blog/tahoe-icons/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
73: Desktop UX
Anthony and Katie discuss Scott Jenson's talk titled "Are we stuck with the same desktop UX forever"
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZTOjd_bOQ
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
72: Famous design phrases
Anthony and Katie each bring some famous design phrases to discuss.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
71: The materials interfaces are made of
Sometimes interfaces mimic physical materials like paper or metal. Anthony and Katie discuss why this might be, what kinds of materials seem most common and how this has shifted over time.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
70: Things that are easy vs. hard to design
Anthony and Katie compare things that feel easy to design vs. hard.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
69: Practical Uses of AI for Designers
Anthony and Katie share ways to use AI in your design practice that don't involve code or generative images.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
68: Interface Design Assets (typefaces, imagery, icons)
Anthony and Katie share some of their favorite design assets.
Links mentioned:
https://simplebits.shop/collections/fonts
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
67: Vector vs. Code Based Design Tooling with Andreas Møller
Anthony and Katie are joined by Andreas Møller, co-founder of Nordcraft. Nordcraft aims to bring design and development closer together, and as you can imagine Andreas has a unique perspective on design tools. What happens to "hand-off" when designers can get their ideas 90% there?
Find Andreas on Bluesky
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
66: Interface Design Then & Now with Microsoft's First Interface Designer Virginia Howlett
Anthony and Katie are joined by Virginia Howlett, author of Visual Interface Design for Windows and one of the first interface designers at Microsoft. Virginia is also an artist, and her paintings can be found on her website https://www.virginiahowlett.com/. We discuss what it was like being a designer 30 years ago (spoiler: some things haven't changed!), the connection between graphic design and interface design, and what it was like pioneering design decisions that we take for granted today.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
65: Listener Q&A
Anthony and Katie answer a few listener questions.
Questions asked: https://x.com/hobdaydesign/status/1961014039368110395
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
64: Big vs Small Software
Anthony and Katie attempt to define big vs. small software, and then compare the two.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
63: Being Intentional About Quality with Lance Willett
Anthony and Katie are joined by Lance Willett, Chief Quality Officer at Automattic. There's a lot packed into this hour long conversation, but a few things we touch on are:
- Measuring and championing quality in distributed teams
- Navigating feedback culture and team dynamics
- Balancing craft, context, and care in product development
Hardik Pandya tweet Anthony mentioned: https://x.com/hvpandya/status/1949733270897188935
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
62: MacOS Through the Ages
Anthony and Katie discuss the elements of previous MacOS versions that stand out most.
Inspired by: https://aresluna.org/frame-of-preference
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
61: Liquid Glass
Anthony and Katie chat about Apple's Liquid Glass.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
60: Designing Tools to Support Creativity with Matt Beaudouin-Lafon
Anthony and Katie are joined by HCI PhD candidate Matt Beaudouin-Lafon at UCSD, and discuss how HCI research intersects with industry product design.
Links mentioned:
- Matt's work on Color Field
- Ink & Switch
- Textoshop
- Creativity Support Tools paper from Ben Shneiderman
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
59: Material 3 Expressive
Anthony and Katie chat about Material 3 Expressive.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
58: Thoughts on Config 2025
Anthony and Katie chat about Config 2025.
Talks mentioned:
The maximalist theory of minimalism
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
57: The Gap Between Design and Execution with Alex Krasikov
Anthony and Katie are joined by design engineer Alex Krasikov to discuss .. you guessed it, design engineering.
Alex Krasikov: https://x.com/alex_krasikau
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
56: Navigation
Anthony and Katie discuss navigation patterns.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
55: Design is Decision Making
Anthony and Katie define the process of decision making as it relates to design.
Anthony's post: https://x.com/hobdaydesign/status/1904449738084094138
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
54: Design vs. Development
Anthony and Katie discuss some differences and similarities between design and development.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
53: Deep Dive on the Conceptual Model Layer with Jamie Mill
Anthony and Katie are joined by Jamie Mill to discuss his post on the elements of product design.
Jamie Mill: https://jamiemill.com/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
52: Visual Design Techniques We Love
Anthony and Katie each pick their top 3 most loved design techniques in the spirit of Valentine's Day.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
51: Thoughts on the book Do Design: Why beauty is the key to everything by Alan Moore
Anthony and Katie discuss the book Do Design: Why Beauty is the Key to Everything by Alan Moore.
Do Design: https://thedobook.co/products/do-design-why-beauty-is-key-to-everything?Format=Paperback
Anthony's list of short design books: https://www.anthonyhobday.com/blog/20230101.html
Dan Luu: Willingness to look stupid
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
50: Starting from Scratch vs. Improving Existing Design
Anthony and Katie discuss what it takes to start designing something from scratch compared to working on an existing product, and the upsides/downsides of both.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
49: Design Folklore with Guy Segal
Katie, Anthony and special guest Guy discuss design folklore: what it is, where it might come from, and how to best use it in your design practices.
Guy Segal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guysegal
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
48: Ghosts of Software Past, Present and Future
Anthony and Katie bring on the holiday vibes by discussing the past, present and future of software design. Bah humbug!
New design systems podcast Katie mentioned: On Theme
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
47: People We Admire
Designers and developers that have influenced us.
The folks we mentioned:
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
46: Design for Developers with Nate Butler
What does it really mean to design for developers? Should you cater to power users or beginners? Anthony, Katie and Nate discuss this (and more) with lots of spicy takes and speculation.
Nate Butler: https://nate.cv/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
45: Constraints
What are the different kinds of constraints and how do they impact design? Anthony and Katie break it down into several types of constraints including: arbitrary, technical, principled, and convenient.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
44: How to be a more strategic designer with Jared Spool
Jared Spool joins Anthony and Katie to discuss what it means to be a strategic designer. We cover what strategy means, different leadership styles, and the difference between outcomes vs outputs.
Find Jared Spool on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmspool/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
43: Design for Customization
What's the difference between customization and personalization in interface design? Anthony and Katie discuss this along with the benefits/downsides of designing for customization.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
42: Performative Good Design
It's a ranty one folks. What is performative design, and why does it exist?
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
41: Elegance vs. Extravagance
Anthony shares a quote to define elegance vs. extravagance as "do a lot with a little vs. a lot with a lot". Katie and Anthony discuss how this relates to interface design and the impact it has on interaction design and product longevity.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
40: Should Designers Code?
How might designers learning how to code impact interface design? Enjoy this extremely reasonable conversation between Katie and Anthony.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
39: Possible Futures for AI in Interface Design with Maggie Appleton
Anthony, Katie and special guest Maggie Appleton speculate about how AI could impact interface design in the future.
The five possible futures we discussed:
AI replaces designers and developers completely
AI produces a rough draft, a designer “tidies it up”
AI builds the interface out of supplied components and a description of how the interface works
AI produces content/components on demand, designers change it to suit, then put the interface together
Designers ask AI focused questions to get inspiration
You can find Maggie on Twitter or on the web at https://maggieappleton.com/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
38: Visual Design in Design Systems with Jeremy Elder
Anthony, Katie and special guest Jeremy Elder chat about the visual design aspect of design systems.
Find Jeremy on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyelder
GitLab's papercuts site: https://papercuts.gitlab.com/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
37: Good Interface Design Habits
Anthony and Katie share their top habits for good interface design.
Design inspiration site Anthony mentioned: https://mobbin.com/
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
36: Interfaces are Affected by What People Care About
Anthony and Katie chat about the people behind interfaces, and how competing priorities impact the end result of interface design.
Hosts:
Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign
Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman