After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career Progression

In this episode, retired Navy Commander Jonathan Odom or "Odom" shares how a pivotal event in his life has shaped his entire outlook on life and why he did not worry about successfully finding an opportunity to continue his love of teaching and writing.

In this episode, Cory Chipman takes us through his journey to the U.S. Army JAG Corps, talks about his stint in the Army, and then about his journey to civil practice, which started in all places, church.

Greg Saybolt had no previous connection with Omaha, Nebraska, before accepting a position with Fiserv. In this episode, Greg takes us through his approach to his career progression and explains how he ended up as a Cornhusker.

In this episode, Allen Linken shares his transition from active duty to becoming a professor at the University of Alabama.

In this episode, I talk to Jennifer Johnson who joined the Navy JAG Corps after graduating law school, passing the bar, and working in the civilian sector. Jennifer then went onto to serve almost 12 years in a variety of billets in the United States and overseas before deciding to resign her active commission and return to the civilian sector in San Diego, CA.

A motivational episode for all judge advocates leaving military service. John Kiel's career progression is a culmination of a military career: from facing unplanned contingencies and learning and mastering new areas of the law, John's post military journey has been unusual but very rewarding.

As a U.S. Army Soldier, Selfless Service was one of the core values instilled into Glenn Hardwood. His decision to run for the District Attorney for Midland County, Texas, demonstrates that while an individual can easily leave military service, foregoing these core values is not. In this episode, Glenn takes us through the challenges of trying to land his desired job with a U.S. Attorney while stationed in Germany, doing so only a week before his PCS], and then after almost seven years, walking away from this job because Glenn believed he could make a difference to his community by running for elected office as the local DA. After successfully winning the election, Glenn then relied on his military experience to build an office and lay the groundwork for attracting new talent and professionally developing them to become effective prosecutors in serving their constituents.

As we leave the service, we tend to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what we want to do and what road we want to travel. Jake Pugh shows us that sometimes choosing the best can be found in the road that one has already traversed. He has successfully done that, This is his story.

By any account, Frank "Max" Wood has had a successful and varied legal career. From judicial clerk to active duty Air Force JAG serving in Wyoming, the Philippines, and Texas, to then serving as a prosecutor, U.S. Attorney, Georgia's Chief Administrative Law Judge, and Director of the Office of Hearings and Appeals for the U.S. Department of Agriculture, among others, and continued service in the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard, it has been a career of public service. In this episode, Max shares his journey .

In this episode, we hear from Adam Torem, a retired U.S. Air Force judge advocate whose intention was to leverage his environmental law experience in the civilian sector, but ended up relying on his other skills and experiences to eventually become a career administrative law judge for the State of Washington.

This week, I talk with Bill Rogers, who has a very diverse legal career: civilian practice, Air Force, Air Force Reserve, government servant, general counsel, advisor, BnB owner/operator, back to private practice, and farmer. In light of that, the title of this podcast is a hat tip to the Grateful Dead.

This week, I catch up with Denise Krepp, who has made a career of filling a niche since she left the Coast Guard in 2002, and a person always willing to take on the fights that need to be fought.

This week, a conversation with former Navy judge advocate Rachel Reddick whose post military career has included a brush with political office, service with Military Commissions Defense Office, a move across country, the California bar exam, a stint as an employment lawyer, and now as an attorney with an Investigations firm.

As a young officer, Jennifer was told that that her job with the Naval Support Group Activity at Fort Meade was not conducive to long-term success for a career in the Navy JAG Corps. Taking the hint, Jennifer started applying for jobs, but having made a good impression on a civilian attorney with whom she often collaborated, Jen landed at the National Security Activity, where she has been for over two decades.

In this episode, Rachel Flannery, U.S. Army Reserve, takes us through her career progression from the Active Component to a career as a National Security Attorney at the Department of Homeland Security, via Georgetown and an LLM, in pursuit of her goal to "Pivot With Intention."

This week, we hear from former Marine, steelworker, FBI agent, Navy JAG, NCIS special agent, counter-intelligence officer, volunteer, and fisherman, John Smallman. From investigating crimes to prosecuting them, John has had a dynamic and interesting career. Full of great sea stories and laughs, there is no better way to close-out the year than talking to John about his career.

In this episode, we hear from Shelby Hladon whose desire to spend more time with her sons has led to a post-military career as a volunteer, especially when it comes to youth and veterans.

In this episode, Patrick Corteau shares his journey from serving as a judge advocate in the Air Force to securing a position with Greenberg Traurig, in its Minneapolis, MN, office.

In this episode, Michael shares how he leveraged his active duty experience as an Air Force judge advocate to teaching in the classroom, both while still serving and after retirement.

As a probationary employee with the Navy Office of General Counsel in 2025, Joe was informed he would likely be laid off as part of the Trump Administration’s efforts to curb the size of the Federal Government. When offered deferred resignation, Joe saw it as an opportunity to join private practice to enable him to return to doing the things he enjoyed doing as a Marine Corps JAG, including Legal Assistance and Litigation.

In this episode, Joe takes us through his journey, including waving into the Virginia bar.

Joe mentions a few of Slack-type groups that he finds helpful, including:

1. ​ LawyerSmack (sidebar.net), a private community for attorneys interested in discussing practice-related issues with their peers in real time. ($199/year);

1. ​ Best Era (https://bestera.com/)($365/year).

1. ​ InnerCircle (inner circle.ernietheattorney.net/feed), which deals with legal tech issues.

In this episode, Holly Cook takes us through her career progression from the Army JAG Corps to the American Bar Association where she continues serving and advocating on issues that are in the public interest.

On July 3, 3021, A. Williams sat down with me (via Zoom) to talk about her decision to transfer from the active component of the U.S. Army, and the importance of networking and doing your research as you pursue a job outside of the military.  Additionally, as the Executive Director of the Judge Advocates Association, Amanda talked about the annual Jobs for JAGs workshop (which was just held this month) as well as the resources and networking opportunities with the American Bar Association.

Jerrod Fussnecker is a judge advocate in the Army Reserve and a civil litigation attorney with Collins and Lacy, and the host of the Military Veterans in Law podcast.

In this episode, I talk to Dough Moquet who left the Air Force after 10 years to return home to Connecticut, where he was successfully leveraged his experiences as an Air Force JAG to land his current gig.

In this episode, recently retired Coast Guard Captain Kathleen Duignan talks about her decision to go back to school.

LTC(Ret) Steve Levin takes us through his career on active duty and as a member of the Army Reserve, working in two U.S. Attorney offices, as a partner in small firms, and as an associate in a medium sized firm, and finally working in big law.

After almost ten and one-half years serving around the world as an Air Force JAG, Roza Sheffield talks about her career progression to her current position as an associate with Holland & Knight.

This week, I talk to Hugo Teufel who joined the Army National Guard as a judge advocate while working as an attorney with the Department of Homeland Security. After the ANG, Hugo made the move to the corporate world, first with Raytheon and now with Lumens.

In this episode, Bryan Thompson, a judge advocate in the U.S. Army Reserve, with experience in both private practice and corporate law as an attorney with Microsoft, talks about his military career, the resource active duty officers have in Reserve Officers when it comes to transitioning from active duty service to post-military career, and working in the field of Privacy.

In this episode, Tom Caruso takes us through his career progression after leaving active duty with the Navy. Leveraging Skillbridge on a part-time basis, he returned to clerk for a judge who was a mentor and for whom he previously worked while in law school to a clerkship with a Federal judge to private practice and now as Chief Legal Officer and Corporation Secretary.

In this episode, we learn about Samantha Sliney's career progression from active duty Air Force to serving as an advocate with the Defense-State Liaison Office, which exists to advocate for military personnel and their families at the State level. Samantha is on LinkedIn and information about the Defense-State Liaison Office is available on the Military One Source web site.

Michael Bahar is a partner With Eversheds Sutherland and is based out of its Washington,DC, office and currently serves in the U.S. Navy Reserve.

In this episode, we hear from Steven Arango, who recently went from serving as a judge advocate in the U.S. Marine Corps to associate attorney at Jenner and Block.

This week, I had the honor of talking to Geoff and Gary Corn to talk about their career progression from Army judge advocates to their respective positions at law schools. The cover art for this podcast is a picture of Geoff and a colleague pinning on Gary's lieutenant bars when he was commissioned.

In this episode, Peter Dutton explains how curiosity has taken him from aviation to the JAG Corps to a post-military career as an academic, obtaining his Ph.D and now becoming a member of the Yale Law School Faculty.

“When you come to a fork in the road, take it.”

- Yogi Berra

In this episode, we hear from retired Army JAG, Trey Courie, who elected to participate in the deferred resignation program.

In this episode, we listen to Professor James Kraska, retired Navy JAG and current Charles H. Stockton Chair of International Maritime Law and Department Head, Stockton Center for International Law, U.S. Naval War College, talk about his motivation for joining the Navy and his unusual and continuing career progression that has remained center on international security law.

A 1930s Kansas Chamber of Commerce ad claimed, "If there's anything better than life--it's life in Kansas." This week, Nathan Banks proves that! Deciding to retire from Fort Leavenworth, Nate was determined to remain in Kansas because of his kids. He then identified possible jobs and landed one through his ever-expanding network. Nate is on LinkedIn

A lot of factors go into a decision of which job to take after leaving the military. Oftentimes, it may leaving a place that you like. That is the situation that confronted Dan Maurer. At least until it did not.

This week, I catch up with Johnathan Rudy who successfully leveraged his military cyber law practice into civilian gigs, including with Geico where he now works. In this episode he recounts how his own lack of knowledge resulted in both a boot camp and Officer Candidate School experiences, and his journey from active duty Marine to working in the corporate world. John is on LinkedIn.

In this episode, I talk to recently retired United States Marine Colonel John Hackel, who is held in high regard by so many. John began his military career two weeks after graduating from high school as a plebe at the United States Naval Academy and 34 years later, had to chart a new course with his post-military career. As you will hear, John took his time in discerning his way-ahead. You can find John on LinkedIn.

In this episode, Ed White takes us through his decision to retire in 2014, the different post-military legal careers he considered, how he landed at the Department of Justice litigating immigration and national security cases, and his eventual retirement to Spain, where he now lives. Ed is on LinkedIn.

In this episode, I talk to recently retired Navy Captain Mark Holley who retired from the JAG Corps in October 2024 and will soon begin his second career as a Navy OGC attorney in San Diego, CA. However, Mark is not just a lawyer and while he would not consider himself a renaissance man, that he has added the title of playwright to resume places him closer to that category than me. Mark talks about how he got into theater, first as an adult stagehand for his children, to some minor acting, and now to writing a script. Mark is on LinkedIn.

This week, former Navy JAG, Paul Wagoner and I discuss his career progression from the armed services to in-house counsel to his current role as an Executive Coach and Resume specialist focusing on in house counsel through his business, Pathless Coaching. We then focus on the latter endeavors , including the coaching Paul provided to me when I was seeking my first post-Navy legal job.

Paul is on LinkedIn.

If you just read the headline for this episode and are now coming back to read this description, you probably thought we were talking about a JAG turned lawyer in a foreign court system. Not here. This weekend, we meet Jill Thomas, an Air Force Reserve Officer who makes her home in Portugal and has since taken up the sport of pickleball. This week's episode should appeal to anyone who has thought about moving to another country. Jill can be found on LinkedIn.

I am not sure of too many people who, with orders in hand to Hawaii, would instead live active duty to accept a position with a civil rights non-profit law firm. Yet, that is exactly what today's guest did. Mike Berry, who continues to serve in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, spent 11 years at the First Liberty Institute handling First Amendment cases, including that of the kneeling football coach, Joe Kennedy. Earlier this year, Mike became the executive director of the litigation division of the America First Policy Institute. He is on LinkedIn.

“Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” - Ferris Bueller

By all accounts, Rob Monahan was on glideslope to a smooth transition. He was days away from signing on with a law firm after his retirement for the Navy the following year when an offer to go work as civilian staffer at the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces came about. Not only did he have to decide fast, but he then had to ask the Navy to allow him to leave much sooner than later as well complete all of his out-processing. (You can connect with Rob on LinkedIn.)

In this episode, we learn about the important work Air Force veteran Abhishek Kambli is doing in preserving states' rights in our federal system. From student loan forgiveness to Title IX issues, this former JAG is involved in some of the biggest cases over the past several years. Abhi is on LinkedIn.

In this episode, I talk to Brian Wilson whose departure from the Navy was prompted by an offer that was just too good to pass up. Known throughout the Corps for his kindness, humbleness, intelligence, and hid dedication to the mission, we all thought Brian would stay until forced out. His first stint out of the Navy lasted 14 years, allowing him to combine many of the roles and skills he developed while on active duty. Just recently, Brian moved to the Institute for Security Governance in Monterey, CA. Brian is on LinkedIn.