Bothsides Podcast

Stephen and Jonathan built one of Australia's top finance businesses from nothing — no ads, no cold outreach, just relentless service and a system most people never figure out. They now write over $1.1 billion in loans a year, and in this episode they explain exactly how they did it.

But this isn't just a finance conversation. It's a masterclass in scaling a business, building a team that performs without you, and creating the kind of customer experience that makes marketing irrelevant. Whether you're in real estate, sales, running your own business, or just thinking about your next property move — there's something here for you.

In this episode:

◾ Why the founders became the biggest bottleneck in their own business — and the leap of faith that fixed it

◾ The "reverse mullet" sales method: how to listen your way to more deals in any industry

◾ How the wealthy buy property before they sell — and why most people don't know this is even possible

◾ Why salary beats commission for building a team that actually cares about customers

◾ The single piece of advice from a Westpac banker that shaped everything (learned at age 19)

◾ What developers need to know right now as the banks return to the market

They started with a hammer and a dream… now property developers Andrew & Rob Gray reveal how they built a $1.5 billion pipeline from the ground up, and why the Gold Coast is just the beginning.

Andrew Gray is a qualified quantity surveyor who learned the property industry from his father's business before co-founding Graya.

Rob Gray completed his carpentry apprenticeship, obtained his builder's licence, and brings unmatched construction expertise.

Together they have grown Graya to 125 staff with landmark developments across Brisbane and the Gold Coast, including The Cloud Project in Palm Beach.

They explain:

▪️ How they went from a deck renovation business in 2012 to a $1.5 billion development pipeline

▪️ Why Palm Beach is one of the most desirable stretches of coastline in all of Australia

▪️ How their complementary skills, development knowledge and construction knowledge, became their greatest competitive advantage

▪️ Why they refuse to specialise in one sector and what their vertical structure actually looks like

▪️ The mindset behind building legacy projects that still look good in 20 years

▪️ What most developers get wrong about design and longevity

▪️ Why Brisbane and the Gold Coast are the two markets they want to dominate

▪️ What they want people to say about Grayar in 30 years

Australia's Real Estate Godfather Bill Malouf breaks down why 99% of agents lose luxury listings.

It's not what you think. And exactly how to win every presentation.

He reveals:

◼️The company pitch book that kills your credibility instantly

◼️Why agents who talk the most close the least deals

◼️The 25-minute bond-building method billionaires respond to

◼️How to sell $300M penthouses without opening your mouth

◼️Why "80% market share" presentations are complete crap

◼️The 2-word response that closed a deal in 48 hours

◼️How to find the "why" instead of pushing stats nobody cares about

◼️Why accessibility beats marketing flair every single time

◼️The exact strategy to win against auction-pushing competitors

◼️How listening more earns you 10x the referrals and repeat business

Corporate Athlete Coach Lincoln Westerman exposes the burnout epidemic destroying high-performers.

Why "grinding harder" is killing your capacity. And the counterintuitive path to sustainable success.

He reveals:

◼️ Why stacking more work on a burnt-out system makes everything crumble

◼️ The "consciousness and quality of its contents" principle that changed everything

◼️ Why most operators chase arbitrary million-dollar goals that aren't even theirs

◼️ How your nervous system is cooked and you're too overstimulated to notice

◼️ The freedom of expression revelation that broke him free from real estate

◼️ Why "what you're not changing, you're choosing" hits different

◼️ The difference between building capacity vs. adding more demand

◼️ How meditation and intentional practices replace the hustle addiction

◼️ Why asking "what will this allow me to experience?" changes the game

◼️ The inner circle principle: your energy, your time, your people

◼️ Why most high-performers sacrifice health, relationships, and sanity for goals that were never really theirs

Australia's #1 Finance Broker Graeme Holm breaks down the housing crisis nobody wants you to understand.

Why it's deliberately constructed. Why most Australians will stay broke. And exactly how to win anyway.

He reveals:

◼️The government conspiracy helping institutions f*ck you out of the market

◼️ Why people who complain about property will be broke forever

◼️The only insurance you pay that doesn't protect you (it protects the bank)

◼️How Australians waste half their income on food and bullshit

◼️The mortgage trap designed to keep families poor for 40 years

◼️Why rent = mortgage payments but nobody wants you to know

◼️The exact strategy to control multiple properties with small deposits

◼️How to leverage equity and build wealth while others complain

◼️Why the disparity will get worse—and which side you need to be on

◼️The 105% loan product that changes everything for first home buyers

Graeme Holm reveals why he built a 200-person empire with NO systems, the 3 external CEOs who all failed, how his team stays 8+ years when the industry average is 18 months, and the brutal truth about scaling that business coaches won't tell you. 

Graeme Holm runs a mortgage business with 189 staff, created a "treasure chest" of award-winning leaders, and refuses to sell despite massive offers.

He exposes:

◼️ Why the 3 external CEOs he hired over 18 months all failed—and what that taught him about ownership

◼️ The "no systems" approach that kept his best people for 8-9 years (rare in any industry)

◼️ How his head of finance won Broker of the Year while working FOR him, not competing against him

◼️ Why "no one will ever treat your business like their own"—the truth about hired leadership

◼️ The difference between owners and operators—and why most business coaches were "failed employees"

◼️ How Rachel now runs his masterclasses after he built a "treasure chest of people" who can replace him

◼️ Why he's manic, unstructured, and ignores every business guru—yet scaled to nearly 200 staff going global

◼️ The real secret to long-tenure staff: competent people, not perfect systems

◼️ Why he refuses to sell for any amount—because "bean counters would run it and the community would suffer"

◼️ What 12 years of blood, sweat and tears bought him: "Now I can spend the rest of my life however the f*ck I want"

Australia's Money Mentor Graeme Holm exposes the $200M banking fraud, shocking 40-year mortgage traps, why 600,000 Australians were robbed, how farms were sold offshore, and the people controlling your wealth.

Graeme Holm has sold over $200 million in real estate, is co-founder of Infinity Group, and is one of Australia's most outspoken financial experts. 

He reveals:

◼️ The $200M stolen from 600,000 everyday Australians—and why it was deliberately messy

◼️ How "licensed experts" sold financial products that don't work

◼️ The hidden agenda to destroy Australia's construction and housing sectors

◼️ Why banks forced farmers into bankruptcy and sold their land offshore

◼️ The 40-year mortgage scam designed to trap families for generations

◼️ How Australia's "big four" banks operate as a cartel

◼️ Why banks claim "it's your responsibility" after stealing from you

◼️ How to protect your wealth when the system is rigged against you

◼️ The shocking truth about who really owns Australia's assets

Australia’s #1 luxury real estate agent, MARCUS CHIMINELLO, reveals the discipline, identity, and elite standards behind his $800M+ a year sales career — and why “how you do anything is how you do everything.”He opens up about the habits, sacrifices, and mindset required to operate at the absolute top of the prestige property market.Marcus Chiminello is one of Australia’s most respected and recognisable agents, known for record-shattering results, precise communication, and a work ethic that has shaped two decades at the top. Today, he sells more than $800 million in premium real estate annually, trusted by some of the country’s most influential families.From 4:30am starts to razor-sharp personal standards, Marcus explains the systems that keep him consistent, grounded, and high-performing - even through burnout cycles, intense pressure, and nonstop demand.He explains:

◼️ Why “repetition” and message clarity build an unstoppable personal brand

◼️ The hidden sacrifices behind elite performance (and why most people won’t make them)

◼️ How emotional regulation can win listings before the pitch even starts

◼️ The habits that allow him to outwork and outlast the competition

◼️ Why standards matter more than goals

◼️ The trade-off between success and your social life (and what he chose)

◼️ How fitness, structure, and self-trust became the pillars of his longevity

In this compelling episode of The Bothsides Podcast, we sit down with renowned entrepreneur, real estate leader, and motorsport enthusiast Shane Smollen. From a humble, working-class upbringing in Ipswich, Brisbane, to building a real estate empire with an enterprise value of over $70 million, Shane's journey is a testament to the power of growth, resilience, and staying true to your instincts.

Shane shares his non-traditional blueprint for success—one that doesn't rely on rigid goals but instead centers around alignment, strategic thinking, and building powerful habits. We dive into his early days with McGrath, selling 10 offices in 2015, and how his love for motorsport parallels his approach to business and life.

Whether you're an aspiring agent, entrepreneur, or simply navigating your own professional grid, Shane’s insights on composure, growth mindset, and performance under pressure will leave you inspired and ready to move the needle in your own journey.Guest: Shane Smollen – Entrepreneur, Investor, Former McGrath Sales Director, Motorsport Champion and current director of Central Elements Developments

Topics Covered:

• Introduction to Shane Smollen and his $70M real estate success

• Growing up in a working-class family and finding property by fate

• Why Shane doesn’t believe in traditional goal setting

• Principles behind Shane’s “helicopter view” of life and decision-making

• Early career: Director of Sales at McGrath and private office ownership

• Leaving corporate structure to follow alignment and autonomy

• Making smart decisions without fixed goals

• Selling his business and finding joy in helping others grow

• Motorsport as a metaphor for business resilience and performance

• Comparing amateur and elite performance—what sits in the gap?

• How to identify weaknesses and turn them into habits

• Trusting your instincts and becoming unconsciously competent

• Real estate’s human side vs. performance metrics

• Composure under pressure: advice for staying calm in chaos

• The importance of practicing in business and not just consuming information

  
  

  Follow Shane Smollen: @smollenmotorsport
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At just 30 years old, Emily Davidson is a Director at Sotheby’s International Realty Paddington–Woollahra. She works alongside McLay Longhurst — ranked the number 4 agent in the country — as part of an elite business unit. But Emily is a powerhouse in her own right: managing a team, leading high-end deals, and carving her name into Sydney’s prestige market.

In this episode, we unpack the story behind her rise:

From growing up in Brisbane and losing her father at a young age...

To moving to Sydney solo and building a reputation in one of the most competitive markets in the country.

Emily opens up about what it really takes to succeed in real estate — the mindset, the discipline, the sacrifices, and the power of showing up with consistency, class, and confidence.

Whether you're a young agent, entrepreneur, or someone chasing excellence — this episode is packed with insights, lessons, and raw inspiration from someone operating at the top of their game.

In this episode, we sit down with Anthony Bell OAM—Founder and CEO of Bell Partners, one of Australia’s top accounting firms and most respected business figures.

A recipient of the Order of Australia Medal, Anthony is a true operator. Known for his loyalty, elite execution, and people-first leadership, he’s built a $100M+ business while serving some of the country’s biggest names—celebrities, high-net-worth individuals, and many of Australia’s leading real estate agencies.

In this episode, we unpack the real story behind his success:

• What it actually takes to build a $100M+ business

• His blueprint for performance, leadership, and staying power in a competitive industry

• How he creates loyalty, retention, and a fun, high-performing workplace culture

• The hidden cost of success—and what most people never see

• His philosophies on money, business, and investing

• And how sailing, service, and stillness shaped the man behind the brand

Anthony rarely shares this side of his journey. In this raw and honest conversation, he opens up about the pressure, the sacrifices, and what it truly takes to build something great.

If you’re an entrepreneur chasing scale, clarity, or legacy—this is a masterclass.

Hosted by Daniel Beardall, with special feature Josh Morrissey.

Will Phillips was one of Sydney’s top-performing real estate agents. Then, he walked away from it all.

He sold everything. Moved to Byron Bay. And started again—no listings, no clients, no local brand.

Within just a few years, he became the #1 agent in Byron and the entire Northern Rivers region.

In this episode, Will breaks down the blueprint behind that reinvention:
→ Why he left a thriving Sydney career behind
→ How pressure drove his early success—and what replaced it
→ The power of living below your means
→ Systems, habits, and the mindset to rebuild from scratch

Whether you’re at the top or at a crossroads, this is a masterclass in clarity, courage, and building aligned success.

Clayton Orrigo is New York’s #1 real estate agent and the co-founder of The Hudson Advisory Team — a business built on precision, brand, and elite execution.

In this episode, Clayton breaks down the mindset behind his success:
→ Why the highest-paid people are specialists
→ The difference between surviving like a machine gun and thriving like a sniper
→ How predictability becomes power
→ Why “building a brand, not a name” is the key to longevity
→ How visualisation, partnership, and boundaries fuel freedom

We also explore how he runs a tight ship, creates space for others to shine, and uses the mantra “Objections in motion stay in motion” to keep momentum alive.

This one’s for anyone who’s playing to win — not just in real estate, but in life.

Special thanks to Wingman for hosting us at their 2025 AREC stand.

Tobi Pearce built and exited his first business for $400 million. Now, his new venture is already tracking toward a billion-dollar valuation.But what sets Tobi apart isn’t just the numbers—it’s how he thinks.This episode goes deep into the operating system behind his success. It’s not motivation. It’s strategy. Structure. Systems.What we cover:• Why Tobi defines success before starting anything• How he strips 80% of unnecessary tasks from a calendar• Deep work vs fragmented productivity—how to win the long game• The truth about motivation (and what matters more)• Why top operators stay objective—even under pressure• Build vs partner: how to assess your skill gaps• The question he asks every hire—and why it cuts through fast• How he avoids hype and stays grounded in results• What it means to scale inside your edge, not outside itIf you’re serious about building something real—this mindset is gold.No noise. No fluff. Just frameworks for people who want to win.

In this episode, Michael opens up about the raw realities behind elite performance: the setbacks, the lessons, and the power of principled leadership. We unpack how he built Clarke & Humel with his wife and business partner, Cherie, why most agents are marketing to the wrong people, and how deep work, humility, and long-term thinking are the real keys to success.

You’ll learn:

• ​Why most agents confuse “busy” with productive
• ​The secret to building trust with prestige clients
• ​How to crack the luxury market without faking it
• ​The mindset shift that separates good agents from elite ones
• ​Why success is not about flash—but about discipline, service, and self-awareness

Whether you’re an agent, entrepreneur, or just want to understand what real success looks like behind the glamor—this one will hit deep.

From $4M in GCI to financial freedom by 37 — Josh Morrissey didn’t just build a real estate business. He built a life by design.

In this powerful episode, Josh opens up about the strategy, identity, and internal drivers that helped him scale Hive into Canberra’s #2 agency — without sacrificing what matters most.

We talk about:

• How he systemised his business and bought his own office building (2 mins from home)

• The difference between ego-driven growth vs. sustainable, purpose-driven success

• Wealth creation through development, cash flow assets, and commercial property

• How “time chunking” helps him run a 30-person team while raising 3 kids

• The real story behind his upbringing, forgiveness, and redefining masculinity

• Why agents and entrepreneurs must learn to switch fuels — from pain to purpose

This isn’t just a podcast about real estate.
It’s about choosing to build the life you actually want to live.

What looks like overnight success is often decades in the making.

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Georges, Director of Growth at Wingmen — a global enterprise now operating with over 1,000 staff less than two years after launch.

But this isn’t just a story about scaling fast. It’s about the 20+ years Nick spent laying the foundation through deep relationship-building, patience, and relentless service — before the opportunity for scale ever appeared.

We dive into:

- The invisible years that built the man before the brand

- How to scale a service business without breaking culture

- The emotional cost of switching from PAYG to true entrepreneurship

- The philosophy behind Phase 1 (Profit), P hase 2 (Scale), Phase 3 (Protect), and Phase 4 (Tech)

- What it takes to lead with vision in a market that only values speed

- This is a rare look into the mind of a relationship-driven operator turned global builder — and a reminder that the work you do before the spotlight matters more than the spotlight itself.

Frank Greeff returns to the Bothsides podcast for his second appearance, bringing deeper insight and sharper perspective. As a seasoned entrepreneur and strategist, Frank has built and scaled ventures that don’t just aim for growth; they aim for real, measurable impact.

In this episode, we unpack what it means to create with purpose, lead with intention, and build systems that move the needle in meaningful ways. Whether you're a founder, a builder, or someone who wants to do work that matters, Frank offers practical wisdom on how to think long-term, act with clarity, and design for change.

In this episode, Matt Purcell dives into what it takes to move forward, even when the odds aren't in your favour. He explores why storytelling is crucial for a brand’s message, how to cut through the noise in a crowded market, and the mindset shift required to take action.. even when you don’t have everything figured out. Matt also breaks down why momentum is key and why most people overthink their first step.

As the founder of KYU Media, Matt has helped businesses create purpose-driven messaging while building his own journey from the ground up. His insights on branding, marketing, and personal growth are grounded in real-world experience, offering practical wisdom that can help you move forward, whether you’re launching a new project or figuring out what’s next.

In this episode, we sit down with Vince Licata, a top-performing agent who has earned his place on Australia’s number one sales team. Growing up immersed in the industry, Vince developed a passion for real estate early on, shaping his career with dedication and expertise.

Since joining PPD in 2015 and becoming a key member of Alexander Phillips’ award-winning team in 2019, Vince has built a reputation for his proactive approach, first-class results, and relentless drive. Known for his ability to connect with clients, maintain open communication, and go above and beyond in every deal, he continues to set new benchmarks in the industry.

Tune in as we dive into Vince’s journey, the strategies behind his success, and the mindset that keeps him at the top of his game—all delivered with his trademark confidence and a smile. If you’re looking for insider tips from one of the best in the business, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!

In this episode of Bothsides Podcast, we sit down with Sarah Hackett, a true powerhouse in the Australian real estate industry. With nearly three decades of experience, Sarah has built an impressive career from the ground up, long before digital property platforms shaped the market. As a founding partner and managing director of Place Estate Agents, she oversees a vast network of 18 offices and divisions while also leading Place New Farm, the #1 ranked office in the company.

Recognised as Queensland’s top-performing female agent and named Australia’s most influential woman in property by REA Group, Sarah is known for her sharp negotiation skills, innovative business strategies, and dominance in the prestige property market. In this conversation, she breaks down how she structures her team for efficiency, nurtures buyers, and has implemented prospecting strategies that have taken her success to new heights.

If you’re looking to understand what it takes to operate at the highest level in real estate, this episode is one you won’t want to miss.

In this episode, we explore the incredible journey of Jordan Strudwick, founder of Strud, who has achieved over $550M in sales. Jordan opens up about his background, the values that keep him grounded, and the pivotal lessons he’s learned along the way.

From the importance of adaptability and courage to the foundations of being a good role model and leading by example, Jordan shares insights that resonate far beyond the world of business. He reflects on staying grounded amidst success, understanding personal values, and the practical steps to set goals, manage money wisely, and remain consistent. This conversation also delves into the significance of trust, visualization, and the invaluable lessons gained from failure.

Whether you’re a real estate agent, entrepreneur, a leader, or seeking inspiration, this episode offers a wealth of wisdom to help you excel in both business and life.

From Ireland to the Gold Coast, Eoghan Murphy has built a stellar reputation as one of South East Queensland’s top real estate agents. With over $350M in beachside property sales and countless awards under his belt, Eoghan shares his journey, insights into the prestige property market, and what it takes to succeed in the competitive world of real estate. Don’t miss this episode packed with stories, strategies, and inspiration!

Sam Guo is an exceptional real estate agent whose career spans over two decades of unparalleled success in the prestigious property market. With career sales exceeding $1 billion, Sam has achieved global recognition for his professional excellence, ethical service, and skillful negotiation.

In today's episodes , Sam shared powerful insights into breaking into the luxury real estate market. He emphasized the importance of perseverance, relationship-building, and understanding client needs. A master at blending professionalism with a personal touch, Sam highlighted the role of authenticity in creating meaningful connections.

Sam also discussed the pursuit of happiness, reflecting on how aligning professional ambitions with personal values drives fulfillment. A unique aspect of his business philosophy is his integration of Feng Shui principles, which he uses to harmonize spaces and meet the nuanced needs of clients, particularly those with cultural ties to these traditions.

He’s Australia’s most respected entrepreneur and property options strategist. But the ascent to success for this self made millionaire, was far from easy.

Early in his career, Mark then a builder found himself in the devastating position of facing financial liability for one of his employee’s actions – to the tune of nearly half a million dollars. He was just 22 years old.

Teetering on the precipice of bankruptcy, Mark was forced to clean windows to make ends meet. Fueled by an unshakable belief in his vision of financial freedom, he continued to channel every ounce of energy into finding a solution, refusing to give up.

He joined us in today's episode to share his incredible story and discuss how he fought through dark times and achieved success in the property game.

Michael Mojo is the founder of Mojo Human Performance Institute and your guide to the ultimate lifestyle you want so that you don't end up stressed out, burned out, tired, self destructive and living an unhealthy or unfulfilled lifestyle.

Today more than ever people are lost, unfulfilled and destroying their mindset by trying to fit the expectations of others rather than leading their own path to success. 

Michael is here to share what he's learned on his journey to becoming the best individual he can be in every area. It’s his mission to help you raise your standards, get the clarity you need to succeed and create the lifestyle you've always dreamed of.

In this episode, we’re joined by Michael Bacon, Co-Director at Place Kangaroo Point, to dive deep into the power of authenticity and creativity in the real estate industry. Michael shares invaluable wisdom on why being unapologetically yourself is the key to thriving as a real estate agent and how to leverage creativity to grow on social media and build a standout personal brand.

Packed with actionable insights, this conversation will inspire you to turn your perceived weaknesses into unique strengths, tailoring your approach to build a successful and fulfilling career.

Whether you’re a seasoned agent or just starting out, Michael’s advice will leave you motivated to embrace your individuality and become one of the best in the business.

🎧 Tune in to learn how to stand out, connect authentically, and thrive in the real estate world!

In this episode, we’re joined by Dane Atherton (CEO of Coastal) and Rob Forde (Director & Auctioneer at Coastal). These two partners are more than just incredible real estate principals - they’re living proof that success comes from going against the grain.

We talk about why you need to genuinely care about your work, embrace the grunt work most people avoid, and have the courage to do what others won’t. It’s not about shortcuts - it’s about bold moves, a humble attitude, and being relentless in a world that rewards mediocrity.

If you’re in real estate... or any field, really... this conversation will challenge how you think about success and inspire you to play the long game.

Hit play, and let’s rethink what’s possible.

Michael's journey is a masterclass in excellence and trust.

From dominating luxury car sales to becoming the go-to expert for Sydney’s most exclusive homes, he’s negotiated over 1,000 high-stakes deals, including the most expensive property sales in Australian history.

Built on referrals, repeat clients, and relentless integrity, Michael’s story isn’t just about selling—it’s about understanding the art of lasting relationships and navigating the pinnacle of the luxury market.

If you’re curious about the mindset behind selling Australia’s most coveted real estate, this episode is for you.

“The single most effective way to sell anything to anyone is to be a problem finder and a problem solver... NOT a product pusher.”

Jeremy Miner is a globally recognized sales expert and the Chairman of 7th Level, a leading sales training company known for pioneering the use of behavioral science and human psychology in sales.

With over 17 years of experience, Jeremy ranked as the #45th highest-earning salesperson worldwide, consistently achieving multiple seven-figure earnings as a commission-only professional.

His unique approach has empowered over 413,000 salespeople across 37 countries to dramatically increase their results.

As a contributor to INC, Forbes, and Entrepreneur, and co-author of "The New Model of Selling, Selling to an Unsellable Generation," Jeremy offers unparalleled insights into sales psychology, persuasion, and connecting with today’s buyers.

Tune in.

Get ready to hear from Zac, a top real estate agent thriving in Sydney’s high-end eastern suburbs.

Growing up in the same area where he now closes deals, Zac has built strong connections that help him get results fast - sometimes three sales in three hours.

Known for his integrity and genuine approach, Zac shares what it takes to succeed in the industry and go beyond just making a profit.

Tune in.

In this episode of the Bothsides Podcast, we sit down with Frank Greef, co-founder of Realbase, who bootstrapped his business to a remarkable $180 million sale.Featured in Forbes and host of the Chew The Fat Podcast, Frank shares invaluable insights into building and scaling a business from the ground up. We dive into his approach to maximizing productivity through dollar-cost strategies, leveraging time effectively, and embodying true leadership.Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur or seasoned professional, this episode is packed with strategies to elevate your game.Tune in.